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Redwall MUCK is an interactive, multiplayer text game set in Brian Jacques' Redwall universe.

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#1 2018-08-07 14:23:58

BlisaMarshmellow
Member
From: The State of Confusion
Registered: 2016-12-14
Posts: 809

IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

So, there's been some debate about distances and such on the MUCK, and someone (who as far as I'm concerned shall remain nameless unless they 'fess up) mentioned rules that the players here 10 or more years ago made up.

Literally only like 2 or 3 of those players are still on here RPing.  Most of us have been members for 6 or fewer years, and so had no say on those rules when they were made.  And we may not agree to them.  So I'd like to propose that we chuck those rules and agree to only a certain set of rules about distances and what is allowed technology wise and such.  And those rules would be defined by what was consistent in the book series.

Now, I know there are some inconsistencies within the series, especially between Redwall and the other books.  But when distances or species sizes are consistent, we can use those as our rules.  So such questions as, "How long did it take characters to get to Salamandastron from the Redwall area?"  "How big were snakes or birds?"  "Could golden eagles really carry of people and eat them?"  would be answered by what the series said (this is probably where http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_Wiki will come especially in handy!).  We can be creative.  We can explore "what ifs?" ICly and in OOC RPs.  But we all imagine the characters a little differently (I imagine them around human size and about the same size; other people imagine them as being regular creatures who can talk; I don't imagine them with hair like humans have; other people do; etc.), and if we want rules to go by for how our characters interact with each other and the world around them with species sizes and distances, I think we should go by what the book series as a whole says, ignoring the discrepancies.  We can even throw the TV series in, if y'all want!  But for important things (mainly the distances between 2 points), I think we should follow the rules Brian Jacques himself set.

HOWEVER, I would like to say that this does NOT apply to OOC rules.  So still:
No go-moding/auto-hitting/spoofing-other-people's-characters-without-their-permission, and if someone calls you out on that, don't justify or excuse it, just stop and move on, striving to NEVER do it again. 
No being a jerk, and if someone is consistently a jerk and won't stop no matter how little they are spoken to and how much they are avoided, Otter gets told and nobody starts an in-game fight. 
Don't intentionally provoke people. 
Be nice to newbies (we ALL were new once). 
Treat other people the way we want to be treated.
Don't do to others what we want them to not do to us.
And so forth.

The IC rules the older players made worked for them, and if Otter wants us to follow those rules, then I will do so.  But if it's not backed up by the way it was in the books.....then why should we obey them (unless Otter says to since it's his website)?

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#2 2018-08-07 17:25:35

oz
Member
Registered: 2016-11-20
Posts: 1,055

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Well,

In more than one role play the Salamandstron trip from abbey was anywhere from 2-3 weeks based on if walked or took  the river, and same on way back of course smile. I think we are doing well with that...the ambassator trip was a little over 2 weeks there and a little over 2 weeks back. A trip before that...believe when Marek took over Redwall and they got help from the LP then...it was like 3 weeks there and back..maybe 2.5 weeks there and same back....so the 3.5 weeks for the recent TP is GOOD smile

Willowbark...don't know distance for that, and I like how everyone seemed to agree ok since Willowbark needs helpfor somethng differsnt the Willowbark beasts decideed to head to Redwall, and this way Marek's little group runs into the Willowbark group and..awsome!

As Dora said let's not worry too much on times/distance and seems these 2 was worked out and all is well now...

Xanders group arrives at Salamandstron 22-23 of Auguest, so here VERY soon...they leave within a few days and should arrive back by Redwall ICLY..September 19th (Seeing as likely leave Salamanastron by August 29th and that gives 3.5 weeks of time.)

Soo...TP is going well and we shall have fun and maybe a dance party on a boat....well maybe not a dance party smile

So...hmmms the Redwall Friar better jolly well stock up on food wot smile Some hare may be there by September 19-20th smile

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#3 2018-08-07 18:49:40

Karth Riverbark
Member
Registered: 2017-09-15
Posts: 400

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Well depends on HOW travel....boat would be faster than on foot. A bird may fly there faster than both. I say stick with 3 weeks, add a couple days of time to rest one way:)

Other than that ..just role play.

I agree on the don't spoof another's characters,  just spoof your own unless some reason you were given permission to spoof a character.

And why not a dance party, can the abbey have one on the walls?


My spoofs:Atvi...and Alts=
Ewan Benjamin Delaney Tanner Mosswell Jahveri- LP Hare Fighter/Private and Residential Redwall Abbey Hare
Dearil-Archer/Fighter/Assassin in Blackrose

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#4 2018-08-08 19:41:50

Foliosa
Member
Registered: 2018-08-08
Posts: 12

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Honestly I'm a bit confused. Could you specify which rules, exactly, you're having issue with? The rules on the MUCK have always been fairly in line with the rules in the books. Technology is restricted to medieval times. No one should be walking around with a canon or modern medicine. As for discrepancies in the books themselves, basically you can just throw Redwall out. It was written before he had set rules for the world and it's the only one that has big differences from the rest of the series.

Might I suggest we just simply let people envision the characters (sizes, head hair, etc) as they wish? It's honestly never affected the RP one way or the other for me.

As far as travel goes, travel time makes the game feel more real. Bopping back and forth willy nilly to whatever area is just lazy RP. You don't need to travel for three IRL weeks, but make an effort to have a scene or two on the road or something of the like. Don't scene at Redwall, then Salamandastron, then back to Redwall in 24 hours. That seems like common sense to me.

But if you want to go with firm book rules, that's a double edged sword. I know many of you have good vermin characters which would never fly in the books except in extremely rare instances... and even then, they're never 100% good. Heck, by the author's own mouth:

Quote from Brian Jaques: "The goodies are good and the badies are BAD, no grey areas."

It seems like you want to change the rules to... what they already are? Haha, sorry. I just don't understand the complaint! If you could clarify, I'd appreciate it!

Last edited by Foliosa (2018-08-08 19:51:22)

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#5 2018-08-09 06:58:31

warrior_Otter_maid
Member
Registered: 2018-03-21
Posts: 102

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

My marten is insane and evil...
But I don't think people should change how a character acts and who says the vermin on here that good are 100% good...they just tip more towards good than others. ANd vermin can still maybe respect the abbey beats somewhat....not that my marten does tongue

Also as for travel.....you also dont want to  have say A TP where oh..day 1....takeover...day 7...rescue cause such and such was gotten....mskr for s boring TP and a lot would not be able to really get into it

I think travel times are fine..3 weeks for western shore from redwall sounds right

I think its like 1/3 a day icly to ferravale from Redwall

Willowbark.....no idea but seems they fixed that by saying the willowbark beasts are on way to mossflower and they can run into who ever looks for them

Other places like snowy north and ruingate....yeah fairly far and a lot longer than 3 weeks one way for them.

As for whats around/not around...maybe it has advnced a little, just a little as this is supposed to be some long seasons after the books I believe...could be wrong. But yeah no like big things like cannons..or shots ect....healers used herbs:).

Well, thats all....but will add lets just have fun, be friends and enjoy role play as I think the role play is very good.....we do need some evilish beasts around and I think the black rose will stay in the background after this latest TP just not be NEARLY as bad as before, then again they did join up with The Shadow, and couple other vermin groups and few odds and ends vermin.....

Also adding we need more voles, maybe some birds like...oh....sparrows!!!! "Makeum sparrows you wormbeasts!!"

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#6 2018-08-09 07:05:35

Foliosa
Member
Registered: 2018-08-08
Posts: 12

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

warrior_Otter_maid wrote:

My marten is insane and evil...
But I don't think people should change how a character acts and who says the vermin on here that good are 100% good...they just tip more towards good than others. ANd vermin can still maybe respect the abbey beats somewhat....not that my marten does tongue

I'm not at all advocating for us to have a firm 'vermin can only be evil' law, I'm just putting that idea into the ring as food for thought about having the game be strictly book rules. There are people with good vermin characters (Flicktail, albeit retired, was one) and with book rules being firm, that wouldn't be allowed. I don't think we should go that far. I'd love to see good vermin characters be RARE, but I wouldn't go as far as to tell people they can't do it. The game is about having fun, after all!

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#7 2018-08-09 09:32:15

Ximena
Member
Registered: 2018-06-28
Posts: 61

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Does it matter really....

There was a couple evil woodlanders on here before

Maybe people could make odd characters like...

1. A bird that is afraid of heights so never flies
2. An otter who can't swim
3.A rat who thinks they are a mouse
4.A mole that speaks normal AND thinks he is a sparrow who lost thier wings somehow:P

Anyhow...role play...have fun!


My Alts
Ximena- Hamster- Slave(Rarely Connected)
Aella- Shrew-Log -A-Log of The Guosim 
Tarsa-Hare-Drill Sargeant in LP and Fighter

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#8 2018-08-09 11:15:55

Foliosa
Member
Registered: 2018-08-08
Posts: 12

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Ximena wrote:

Does it matter really....

There was a couple evil woodlanders on here before

Again, I only mentioned it because the original post suggested going by book rules and I was pointing out a rule in the books that might not work for the game.

Not in favor of having the black and white vermin / woodlander alignment rule. At all.

It was only an example of why firm book rules WOULDN'T work.

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#9 2018-08-09 14:02:19

BlisaMarshmellow
Member
From: The State of Confusion
Registered: 2016-12-14
Posts: 809

Re: IC Rules and OOC Rules: what should we do about them?

Foliosa:  I had someone (who was an older player before I even joined) on the MUCK tell me, without telling me where on the original MUCK site the rule was posted, that it was a MUCK rule that birds were small enough to perch on, like, a cat's or mouse's shoulder.  They also said the same thing with the distance between Salamandastron and Redwall:  they said that 2 weeks one way was too short and it was a MUCK rule that it was at least a 4 week trip in one direction.  But they never told me where on the MUCK this rule was posted, and I'm a compulsive rule-follower, so for a while after I joined 6 years ago, I was reading the rules on there to make sure I didn't break any.  And I found these supposed "rules" nowhere!

And I agree that we should let people imagine the characters the way they do, and if someone says, "Hey, I imagine that ravens" (for example) "are too big to perch on a mouse's shoulder, so please don't ask me to let your raven do that unless they're trying to squish my character," then we should respect that.

And I, too, love letting vermin and woodlanders be on either side.  That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm just wanting people to not be saying "its a MUCK rule!" when...it's not...really.  Especially when they're trying to get me to play their way, instead of letting me imagine my characters and the world around them like I always have. 

Everyone:  I'm not advocating strict to-the-books rules, especially with how good or evil characters are.  This was spawned by someone trying to get me to imagine things a certain way by saying that it was a "MUCK rule".  (See response to Foliosa, above.)

In every email to Otter I have done about problem players, he's told me to just "have fun".  So you guys are right; let's just focus on having fun.  I'm sorry if I seemed to be advocating playing a certain way; I wasn't.  I just want people to stop trying to make me do things their way.  There's more than 1 right way to play, so long as we respect each other.

And I feel I should apologize.  This player that I mentioned in the first paragraph of my response to Foliosa had made me mad on the day I posted this, and I'd been having people hurt and anger me that whole day IRL, so this probably came across much more heavy-handed than I intended.  I'm sorry sad

Karth: There's this 1 person who keeps autohitting on me and spoofing my characters without my permission, and when I tell them to stop, they just excuse it like, "Oh, but my char would put their paw on your char's shoulder" or "oh, but your char needs to be doing this!" I'm planning that, the next time this happens, I will argue with them.  If they won't stop, then I'll tell other players exactly who it is.  And if they still don't stop, I'll email Otter.  Because I am done with that kind of misbehaviour! >.<

(Everyone: I am also a recovering pushover IRL because of a traumatic life, so if you see anyone spoofing or autohitting on my characters, whether or not I'm in the room, please message me and ask if I gave them that permission.  It's really hard to be brave sometimes :'( )

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